May 3, 2008

Not looking for this Daddy

In my previous post, I paraphrased a conversation with a girl named Joy, who seemed to be looking for a Daddy, was intended to be illustrative of a typical kind of conversation. Joy claimed a need for “someone who will watch over me, keep me in line, and make me accountable for myself and my actions. I’d want him to give me rules, chores and a curfew and enforce them”. Because of comments attached to the posting as well as questions I received via email and chat, this “typical” interaction seemed to take on a certain life of its own. One reader, ~L, asked a number of interesting probing questions and made me look at Joy in a different light.

In an effort to give the benefit of the doubt, overcome some skepticism on my part and to just satisfy a curiosity, I continued to have conversations with Joy and further learn what it was she really was seeking, if in fact she was seeking anything at all. Further discussions lead to some very clear conclusions; 1) Joy is looking for an older man to fulfill a daddy role in her life, but the definition is a very fuzzy mix between Daddy and father image, a point that ~L brought out during our comments back and forth, 2) Joy wants someone to spank her not just for transgressions or rule breaking, “I’ve thought a lot about going over your knee lately”, every day, “even if there is no punishment really needed for anything”, 3) she wants to be living with someone who will impose this discipline on her on a daily basis, and finally, 4) it is to be non-sexual, “this is not about a sex partner”, although on more than one occasion she would ask if I would mind if all she wore around the house was just a t-shirt or tank-top.

However, any attempts to steer the conversation to the need for watching over, keeping in line, accountability, rules, chores, curfew and enforcement, always focused on enforcement and spanking. Clearly Joy has spanking fetish.

Finally I declared that this arrangement was not going to work out, because frankly, “I cannot imagine having an attractive “young little-girl daughter” running around in nothing but a t-shirt, who I lay across my lap bare bottomed and spank each night at bedtime, and not have any sexual response”. (I am sure there are those who could conduct that kind of a spanking discipline on a regular basis, but frankly I am not that kind of a sadist but God bless them that can.) She countered by a suggestion that maybe she could be a maid, or housekeeper, some position where she would feel okay about some sexual interaction, not being someone’s “daughter”, and maybe only oral, “all you would ever want”, and then a couple of other postulations but finally, we agreed that I was probably not the right Daddy.

It very well could be that Joy is looking for a father figure, a disciplinarian to guide her into young adulthood as ~L suggested. But, I am inclined to agree with Alice who commented, I think that many of these young women are craving dominance, but I am sure many are just exploring and dabbling. "Playing" at submissiveness and truly submitting are two (very) different things.

Am I wrong?


  1. i agree alice's statement that playing at submissiveness and truly submitting are two very different things.

    however, joy is very young and there has been a starting point for each of us. were we playing then or were we learning? moreover, who decides if you are or you are not truly a submissive? is there a test to be taken? *i must have missed class that day.* who sits in judgment? depending on the persons involved, i think the gift of submission is highly subjective.

    Lastly, your quote “I cannot imagine having an attractive “young little-girl daughter” running around in nothing but a t-shirt, who I lay across my lap bare bottomed and spank each night at bedtime, and not have any sexual response”. (I am sure there are those who could conduct that kind of a spanking discipline on a regular basis, but frankly I am not that kind of a sadist but God bless them that can.)

    sadist? I think masochist might be the correct term here. LOL ;)

    hugs, elle

  2. elle,
    No, there is not a test and yes she is young. Even a year ago, I did not know the depth of submission that I craved. But being submissive and being a spankophile are not necessarily the same. Submission requires a level of commitment. I believe it is centered more on the aspect of serving and giving of yourself, and less on what you need.

    My submission does meet my needs, but my desires and commitment are directed at what I can offer Him, not on what He can give me. This was a process, it did not occur overnight, but the connection was there from the start. I think that joy is looking to satisfy her own needs and desires, not serve someone else. Eventually, she may shift her focus. Right now, she is just exploring.

    I do not want to get ionto a discussion of "true" submissiveness vs being a bottom. The depth of one's submissision is different for each person and varies in each relationship. But when the focus is on what you want and need, I do not think that is submission.

  3. Alice isn't wrong. Speaking as a young woman myself, I have to admit that the submissive life holds appeal for me. But, I fear I'd still be in the dabbling phase. I like being controled in the bedroom, I like submitting, but when I read around to people who are true submissives...well I don't think I am ready for that.

    Good for both of you that you realized this wasn't going to be a productive relationship for either of you. Good luck to Joy though and of course you!

  4. i would differ with alice and say that submission *is* about what the submissive needs. i mean, ideally we hit the point in a relationship where we don't need to worry about our needs being met because our dominant is doing that for us, and we trust him to continue doing so. but early on, it's necessary for us to be sure that our needs are being met. it's necessary for our needs to be met in an ongoing way.

    but i do agree with alice in that submission cannot be about what the submissive *wants.* needs and wants are different... i mean, i often *want* lots of things. i want to hang out with my owners every night, i want to sleep over, i don't want a spanking, i don't want to wear my hair up. they don't generally give me what i want. but they know that i *need* rules, understanding, respect, and a reliable presence from them. and those things they always give.

    i agree that the definition of submission is subjective and ultimately every relationship agrees upon its own parameters. (to answer elle's question, i think the person who sits in judgment of whether or not a person is submissive is that submissive person's dominant.) but i too noticed that joy was being pretty specific-- dare i say dominant?-- as she laid out the requirements that she had for a relationship.

    personally i think of being a 'little girl' in this context as slightly different than being a submissive. i know that when my owners are focusing on my little girl side, they will often give me more leeway for my behavior. i can whine and stomp my feet and be a little bit willful, and they tolerate that. on days where they don't want to see my little girl side, i'd be crazy to try those things. when they are treating me like a little girl, often they take care of *me* more than i serve them. and it looked like joy was looking for that as well. not to serve as a submissive, but to have the green light to behave like a little girl-- to be in a relationship where she can be willful and immature, and where her partner in that relationship "serves" her by giving her structure and spankings. i feel like i've seen lots of relationships where the person who identifies as submissive is really the one who is being 'served' by the dominant rather than the other way around, and i think the little girl dynamic lends itself to that. so maybe joy's request wasn't so far off, even if it wasn't right for david and his needs.

    i'm not generalizing about all daddy/little girl relationships, of course. my comments are based on my own experience in a relationship where sometimes i am allowed to take on that little girl role... in my particular relationship, i notice a BIG difference between the little girl times and the obedient pet times.

  5. Persephone,

    I believe you are right, I poorly worded my response. It is about my needs too, but I also realize that my needs are primarily met through my submission to Him. I trust Him to know and meet my needs. I do not usually tailor my actions or impose limits or requests based on my needs, He determines and meets my needs without that.

    That said, our relationship would have never progressed to this point, if my needs were not being met. At some point it became all about Him, but that was a process.

  6. is not that i disagree with the ultimate assessment of joy's agenda.

    my questions were merely to emphasize that we didn't just fall into submission. who knows if joy is or will be a submissive - exploration is the beginning of the learning process.