While reading some discussions on FetLife I came across a description of a state of mind that transported me back over 30+ years in time. A woman was discussing a condition where she was present in the moment but “separate” from the activities going on around her. It does not seem like an out of the body experience, or even that thing that many refer to as “sub space” (more on that later). Here is a link to the FetLife discussion - Mental relating to Physical... where you can read her full posting and all of the various comments by others.
I am sub-setting the conversation for those who do not FetLife, and in the likely case that the discussion might disappear or be archived at some point in the future.
As I said, I was particularly impressed with the "altered" state of mind she discusses. I understand her distinction between this meditative state of mind,and what she knows as sub space.
Many years ago, I was in the Galleria, in Houston, Texas, where I was living. I was standing at the railing on the top level, looking down into the open spaces below. It was a weekday afternoon, not particularly busy or crowded, but there was a steady flow of people around and the attendant background noise you would expect from such a shopping crowd. I was leaning my arms on the top of the railing and had a foot resting on the lower bar of the railing.
As I stood there I “de-focused” my eyes and let my mind break concentration from specifics. I felt myself shift into a state of mind where it was if everything going on around me was a cloud. Not a series of distinct and individual occurrences but a greater mass. Hearing everything going on, I remember the thought coming into my mind, “This is the noise that humans makes.”
This feeling lasted for a short period of time, probably less than 5 minutes, although I was not sure how much time had really passed. It was very much like she talked about above, “ it was as if I was removed from the situation”.
From my own perspective, this state of mind was not unexpected. I had been reading “The Teachings of Don Juan” by Carlos Castaneda, and other books in the series. In his writings he talks about the concept of “stopping the world”. Which I see as stopping your participation in the world, disconnecting from active or passive involvement from the goings on around you and being apart and separate from everything while being thoroughly in the midst of it all. (For more depth you might want to read the Introduction at Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan's Teachings).
So, it was something that I had been thinking about and in the de-focusing and clearing of my mind, I had actually hoped for such a state to be induced. After a few minutes the feeling cleared and I was back in the present moment, in the midst of a mid afternoon crowd of shoppers.
The similarities of these two events and the various notions of sub space have caused me to wonder about methods for reaching meditative states.
Have any readers had a “sub space” experience similar to the one reported above, something that went beyond what we collectively think of as sub space? What was it like and how was it different? Have others found that sub space functions as a state of mind that leads to a deeper or different meditative state? How, if at all, has it affected your submission?
I am also curious if anyone was a reader/follower of Castaneda and his books about his adventures with the Yaqui Indians, or might have practiced/attempted any of the mental states he discusses in his books?
I am sub-setting the conversation for those who do not FetLife, and in the likely case that the discussion might disappear or be archived at some point in the future.
Mental relating to Physical...
by MasterCharles_pet - August 17, 2011
"Just recently, I met my Master and sister slave for the first time. They came to determine if We All...fit Together, which, I am proud to say, We did."
"Something happened that I wanted to share, and see if anyone else has had a similar experience... "
"After a very physical session...well, as physical as One can get in a motel room...I felt myself seem to go into a state very very similar to subspace... I got totally quiet...eyes closed and deep within myself... I could hear Master and donna talking, but it was as if I was removed from the situation... though physically, I could not have been closer to Master, my entire body touching His. I could not answer questions .... until I was "Brought around" by Master asking if I were alright. I wanted to explain to Him that I was much, much better than simply alright...that I felt almost euphoric. That was not the worst beating I have ever been through...far from it... but it seemed so amazingly intimate, as if I gave myself over to Him..."
- - snip - -
"What I feel is that I have learned an introspective skill...where I can actually disappear inside myself, and there keep the joy and hope I have found in being a slave to a Master... and it is hypnotic, calming, possessed... I wish I could share this ability with my sister slaves, friends etc., so they could let themselves go and retreat inside themselves this way."
There follows comments and discussion, and then she adds:
"Understand what everyone is saying....and yes, perhaps it is...simple enough to be defined as subspace.... but I have been there too...and it was brought on during a mind fuck...an intentional act....this was more like a dream, less physical...less a loss of control, and more a deliberate...escape. If it were subspace, I would have recognized it as such, and hardly needed to expound upon it. This was more of a meditative, introspective state...not brought on by pain, or confusion....but brought on by a need to remain...intact."
As I said, I was particularly impressed with the "altered" state of mind she discusses. I understand her distinction between this meditative state of mind,and what she knows as sub space.
Many years ago, I was in the Galleria, in Houston, Texas, where I was living. I was standing at the railing on the top level, looking down into the open spaces below. It was a weekday afternoon, not particularly busy or crowded, but there was a steady flow of people around and the attendant background noise you would expect from such a shopping crowd. I was leaning my arms on the top of the railing and had a foot resting on the lower bar of the railing.
As I stood there I “de-focused” my eyes and let my mind break concentration from specifics. I felt myself shift into a state of mind where it was if everything going on around me was a cloud. Not a series of distinct and individual occurrences but a greater mass. Hearing everything going on, I remember the thought coming into my mind, “This is the noise that humans makes.”
This feeling lasted for a short period of time, probably less than 5 minutes, although I was not sure how much time had really passed. It was very much like she talked about above, “ it was as if I was removed from the situation”.
From my own perspective, this state of mind was not unexpected. I had been reading “The Teachings of Don Juan” by Carlos Castaneda, and other books in the series. In his writings he talks about the concept of “stopping the world”. Which I see as stopping your participation in the world, disconnecting from active or passive involvement from the goings on around you and being apart and separate from everything while being thoroughly in the midst of it all. (For more depth you might want to read the Introduction at Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan's Teachings).
So, it was something that I had been thinking about and in the de-focusing and clearing of my mind, I had actually hoped for such a state to be induced. After a few minutes the feeling cleared and I was back in the present moment, in the midst of a mid afternoon crowd of shoppers.
The similarities of these two events and the various notions of sub space have caused me to wonder about methods for reaching meditative states.
Have any readers had a “sub space” experience similar to the one reported above, something that went beyond what we collectively think of as sub space? What was it like and how was it different? Have others found that sub space functions as a state of mind that leads to a deeper or different meditative state? How, if at all, has it affected your submission?
I am also curious if anyone was a reader/follower of Castaneda and his books about his adventures with the Yaqui Indians, or might have practiced/attempted any of the mental states he discusses in his books?
I haven't read any of Castenedas stuff... Well one book but I didn't get through the whole thing. I have studied shamanism though. And I've had many similar experiences similar to the one she describes. Some of them even intentional on my part. It definitely is much different than subspace. When I'm in subspace I'm still somewhat present. I can still feel what's going on with me physically. This other state it's more like being completely removed. Like your someplace else and it truly does feel like pure bliss.
ReplyDeleteI did read all of Castenada's books in my 20's. I was looking for non-traditional options for treating ADD and depression. Reading this post is the first time I ever put it together with episodes I've had since beginning TTWD. What I experienced the first time W bound me was almost exactly that state of being removed. It wasn't subspace as I know it. It happened a few times in the last year, my mind disengages and I am there in the midst of what is happening, insulated. Like the chemical difference between a suspension and a solution. I am suspended in what is going on rather than dissolved in it. One of the few times my mind is quiet. I find that sense of "stopping the world" is hard to achieve unless I am practicing some form of meditation on a daily basis. Perhaps I need to go back to it, sans peyote this time.
ReplyDeleteI have also experienced what you are describing, and, just based on what I know, possibly it's dissociation. That sounds like a bad thing, but it isn't always.
ReplyDeleteDaddy and I have studied a lot of psychology and the like because of my dissociative disorder, and dissociation is the mind distancing itself from... itself. You can do it automatically, like when you are driving on the road and kind of zone out and suddenly realize you are already on your exit, or to protect yourself, which can turn into a dissociative disorder, or even on purpose, just to relax your brain and give yourself a happy timeout. If you can learn to turn it on and off, I think that's just another way that you have learned to take control of your brain that the average person can't. Self-awareness, you know?
Anyways, I didn't mean to start giving a lesson or anything. I've obviously felt more extreme forms of dissociation. But, now, having it under control and having gotten the help for the past history that gave me the disorder, I've experienced what you guys are talking about too. I like your story of being at the Galleria, Sir. That is exactly how I've felt before. You just feel so outside of everything else!
I have had little moments like this, possibly a bit like you have described. Sometimes I dream things before they happen. Just small random moments in life. When I am in one of these moments there are just a few seconds where I feel this little disconnect from my body, like I'm not really there. Then this feelings leave and the first thought in my head is that I have dreamed this before.
ReplyDeleteturiya - so you know the two states of mind as distinct from one another? Is the second one a deeper state, if that makes sense? You enter subspace then then go further?
ReplyDeletelittle monkey - so like turiya, you know them as two separate feelings? You description of suspension vs solution is an interesting analogy.
little butterfly - interesting that you have associations with dissociation. I am familiar with that state of mind, but have always had it described to me as a lessening of conscious attachment to what is going on, not a deep one.
serenity - so sort of like a deja vu? I once heard someone suggest that deja vu was a "breakdown" of the brains communication, where something was recognized so quickly that by the time you were conscious of it, it had already been processed in your mind, so it seemed like all over again?
I have never experiences it that way Sir, but I suppose it could happen that way. I've always reached that other state through guided meditation. Never with pain or anything like that.
ReplyDelete*hugs*
turiya
I think perhaps Little butterfly is right and what we are talking about here is a disassociative state. That feeling of being removed from it all, but still connected and almost hyper aware. I've experienced that in both negative and positive episodes. It is the same mechanism for both, just brought on by different triggers.
ReplyDeleteYes, subspace feels different for me, I can't explain it any better than the solution vs. suspension analogy, solution being in subspace, and suspension being the state you describe here. I don't discount the possibility that they might be gradients of the same scale but if they are they are so far apart for me that I can't see the relationship.
If there is a distinction between the two states, and I think there is, sub space occurs when one reaches a particular sexual state of being. I think of sub space as being brought on by the other.
ReplyDeleteThere is also another state that the person brings to themself, I think. It could be in a negative context where they are protecting their psyche by temporarily abandoning a particularly painful experience (eg. being verbally or physically attacked). Or, it could be a positive experience wherein a person feels that they have reached a great 'truth', or a connection with their inner self, or with another person, or even with the Universe.
As I have experienced it, sub-space is a state of suspended animation, as if the world has temporary stopped and you are in a state of euphoria. The other state is quite different and you feel that your thinking is crystal clear and that you are in that moment (or moments) full of love, or profoundly close to a person (who is or isn't there). It is in order to get to those states that I meditate. I cannot get to sub space by myself. I need the other to get me there. It is the highest form of sexual partnership in my mind. I hope that makes some sense.
I think it is hard to find the language we can each use to describe that something that happened/happens in a way that another can say, "Yes! That's it, I have had that too." But it sure sounds very similar.
ReplyDeleteI think Vesta makes an good point of drawing a distinction between something brought on by someone else and something we induce in ourselves.